I love movies with twists. I also love having spoiler-filled discussions of movies with twists. Do not read any further if you haven’t seen both Matrix movies. And Dumbo. And The Wizard of Oz. Consider all comments to be spoiler territory as well.
A brief primer on my terminology:
Blue World – The world of Zion, the Nebuchadnezzar, Council members, etc. Filmed with blue filters, hence the name.
Green World – The world of the City, the Merovingian, Agents, Leather & Sunglasses, etc. Shot with green filters, hence the name.
Natalia once told me several months ago that she knew how the sequel to The Matrix would end. “They’re still stuck in the Matrix, but they don’t know it yet.” This was during a time when reliable spoilers were few and far between, so I regarded her theory as some random crap she came up with after one too many drunken conversations with my labmates. They already did that plotline in a Star Trek episode, I told her dismissively. Now way they’d rehash something like that. After a few months, though, the Zen-like implications of the theory grew on me, to the point where I decided that the Matrix should be infinitely recursive, that there is no objective existence outside it, a sort of fulfillment of various philosophies which deny the existence of objective/material reality. Cool idea, I thought.
After the events of The Matrix: Reloaded, it really could happen.
[Last Chance: Don’t read any further if you haven’t seen Reloaded.]
The most intriguing plot twist in the movie for me is the scene where Neo manages to affect the squid-like Sentinels in the Blue World much the same way as he does bullets in the Green World. It’s clear that his bullet-halting abilities are an extension of his status as “The One” in the Matrix—what does his new ability to do similar messianic things in the Blue World mean?
I have a few speculations. I will list the three most probably ones in order of likelihood, which also happens to be exactly inverse of how much I like them.
Least Likely, Most Favored Explanation:
Neo’s powers in the Blue World are the same as his in the Green World, and are explained in the most simple way possible: he’s still in the Matrix. Realizing that he hasn’t left the Matrix, he simply engages the same power he uses in stopping bullets to destroy the Sentinels, since they’re all equally illusory simulacra. This, of course, is the proverbial Can of Worms, as practically everything that has been set up in the previous two movies goes straight out the window, and any fear other than for the immediate safety of the main characters is made moot. It does make the lines of the Merovingian particularly poignant: if everything is fake, and there’s no escaping it, why just live to serve yourself? Brings the issue of “choice” to a neat, if Brazil-like conclusion. We could have an ending where the Blue World is victorious, and humans rejoice in their liberation, while in truth, they’ve done nothing to come closer to the kind of freedom they seek. Last shot could start with Neo in a vat somewhere, with a slow pull-out showing millions of humans still held by the machine, in their minds celebrating their imaginary liberation and final victory, while machines softly hum the melody to a strangely enchanting 50’s salsa song. I love it.
More Likely, Less Favored Explanation
Neo is more or less a glorified gaming expert. There is a reason why these movies are so popular with video gamers: Neo is an average Joe in his “real life” at the beginning of the first movie, a guy with apparently no real social life, poor working relationships and no significant other, but who wins the chick and is made like a god because of his ability to “play the game” of the Matrix better than anybody else. 100% geeky video gamer power fantasy. In Reloaded, he is treated in the Blue World like a god or a messiah, but unjustifiably so: while he may be able to do any number of superhero-like things in the Green World (a known simulation), he still remains just like everybody else in the Blue World: dirty, full of black plugs, and no more physically skilled than the next person. He’s a really good video game player, that’s all. I don’t think all this harping about Neo’s uniqueness is just deception, however because then we’d be simply rehashing Dumbo: “You thought this whole time you had magical help, while all along it was nothing other than your blind faith and a refusal to quit that made you do the impossible, isn’t that special?” Assume then, that the Blue World is real. Neo’s newfound power may show that he is truly becoming a transcendant being, a Buddha-like figure, in more ways than just being a l33t g4m3r. This allows the plot to retain its sense of urgency, as Zion truly does represent an existence external to the Matrix, and presents an opportunity at the end of the story (provided that he can and will save Zion) for Neo achieve some sort of apotheosis that fully reveals his god-like nature in the Blue World. Self-sacrifice to destroy the last of the machines, maybe?
Most Likely, Least Favored Explanation
Agent Smith explained that his new abilites (including his ability to leave the Green World, presumably) stem from his code commingling with Neo’s during the climax of the 1st movie. The movie plays up the Smith/Neo parallel quite a bit, even to the final shot of the movie. It would be fair to assume that just as Smith gained ability from Neo, so should Neo have new abilities gained from Smith. Smith can interact with humans without any sort of machine interface now, it’s easy to imagine that Neo now has some rapport with the machines. The Blue World is real, Neo is not a superhuman, but rather gained some powers in the Matrix that carried over into the Blue/Real world. It does open up some holes, like why he can’t kick incredible ass in the Blue World like he can in the Green World, but it does seem like a pretty average, unambitiously Hollywood plot resolution, saving the Wachowski’s from having to deal with real mind-bending stuff, like Natalia’s idea.
Apart from these proposals, there are some ancillary plot ideas that I’ve been throwing around in my head:
Maybe…
…the Matrix is a human project, created by humans, for humans. Maybe all of humanity is in some sort of hibernation or cryogenic storage, and this is the entertainment. (Hello,Vanilla Sky>!)
…Neo is just a computer program, stuck in a series of nested or infinitely nested matricies, a superior AI among lesser ones. He is, after all, The One 6.0. Maybe the whole movie is an exercise of what a Strong AI “feels like” in an environment populated by weaker AI’s. Matt, feel free to call me a fool on this one.
…Neo has to die in the Green World to save the Blue World (or something beyond it, if the Blue World is fake)?
…the Merovingian and Persephone are previous “One’s”? Interesting notes: 1. Monica Bellucci, the pair of bre– um, actress who plays Persephone, plays Mary Magdalene in the upcoming movie The Passion. 2. Among some crackpot circles, Christ fled the Holy Land after his resurrection and sired children with Mary Magdalene; Rennes-le-Chateau, the Holy Grail, and all that jazz. According to legend, the lineage of Christ produced the Merovingian line. A competing legend claims that Merovech, the namesake of the Merovingians, was the son of a sea monster. You decide.
…it will all be revealed to be just a video game played by a kid? How Wizard of Oz would that be?
…I read waaaay to much into the movie, and have thus become a detail-obsessed, prattling fanboy?
You tell me.
I really hope your #3 option isn’t it. That would be really pathetic for a series that has so far shown some pretty good writing and interesting plot development. I really like the first option, especially coupled with the first ‘maybe’ — that the Matrix is a human project made for humans. Sort of like a long-term Minority Report-esque mind prison, maybe one in which something with the plot line went horribly wrong and the machines took over.
Going along with the “it will all be revealed to be just a video game played by a kid” line… what if it is all just a simulation, played for the entertainment of real, external humans? I assume that by the time we’d have the technology to simulate an entire world and its inhabitants we’d still like kickass wire-fu movies, right?
Left by John on May 20th, 2003
Boring movie. The fight scenes were cool, but the buck stops there.
There was too much crap that had nothing to do with the movie in it. I left early.
Left by Ryan on May 20th, 2003
Not surprisingly, I disagree. In fact, if you slam edit out the fight scenes, so that all you got was the setup and the conclusion (and from that could figure out who died), it would have been the very same movie. Like good martial arts films, fighting is only the visual glue that keeps you there for the story. Indeed, if there was “crap that had nothing to do with the movie” then it was the fight scenes themselves, which while cool did little to advance the plot.
Left by John on May 20th, 2003
Another theory on why Neo has powers that extend into the Green World: if Agent Smith and Neo “exchanged information” at the end of the first movie, which gave Agent Smith the ability to replicate and the ability to invade human minds in the Green World, could that have given Neo the ability to control machines in the Green World, too? It seems reasoanble that they would give each other abilities that correlated but opposite.
Left by John on May 20th, 2003
Too much crap that had nothing to do with the movie? That ‘crap’ *was* the movie. That’s like reading a book and complaining that there’re too many words between the pictures.
Left by Eric on May 20th, 2003
It’s gotta be a matrix inside a matrix. If it’s not, they have some serious explaining to do for how neo stopped the sentinels.
Plus, it just makes too much sense that the oracle designed Zion as a place that the non-believers can go and not realize they’re still in the matrix.
I also think it’s stupid to really discuss the plot too much, because there are huge plot holes all over.
Left by Scott on May 20th, 2003
Plot holes:
First, the whole laws of thermodynamics, energy from a closed system problem, and the fact that humans are bad batteries. The only way around this is that the whole ‘energy’ thing is wrong and they’re using the humans as a neural net of some type. Thus, life without the matrix would be, for the machines, a lower order of life.
Second, if there’s like 5 billion humans hooked up to this system, why wouldn’t they just flush the quarter mil or so that reject the system? That’s negligible. The way around this is that the machines value efficiency so much that it keeps them from even losing 1% of their crop to doubt.
Third, if there are programs that can program other programs, they’re obviously aware of the constraints of the matrix and thus can hit the limits of it…there’s no way that machines wouldn’t be able to program other machines that would be infallible in the context of the matrix. Perhaps there would be ways to outwit them, but you wouldn’t beat them with your kung fu. If they can make orgasm cake certainly they can make whatever the hell they want.
Fourth, if they’ve got this whole ‘reset the matrix, wipe the memories of the people inside’ thing going on, why don’t they just wipe the memories of folks who figure out it’s the matrix? Why do they need zion?
The whole ‘illusion of choice’ thing seems to be obviously leading up to a ‘the choice between the matrix and the real world was just an illusion, they’re both the matrix’ ending. Neo is the one because he’s the one that figures that shit out and busts it all up.
Left by Scott on May 20th, 2003
I’m not gonna get into a whole ‘which motivation of artificial intelligence leads it to destroy humanity’ thing.
Left by Scott on May 20th, 2003
I disagree with the Matrix within a Matrix proposition. I think that if Neo was still in a world within a machine that he wouldn’t have been so weakened by his newfound power. I find it strange that there are so many good arguments for the Matrix withing a Matrix theory, and yet I still feel like it is not the case. The reasons for the Matrix within a Matrix (That just sounds so right, doesn’t it? I mean Mathematics often uses a matrix of matrices.):
1. The “earlier versions” of the One looked exactly like Neo, meaning the computers programed his looks in each version of Neo, and he looks the same in both worlds (blue and green)
2. Neo and Smith can both move through the two matrices, and Smith can take over someone’s mind. Hello? Hacking into someone’s mind and taking it over? That is possession… can a computer really do that without a matrix? I think so, but I also think I am in the minority.
3. Neo can manipulate the blue world now too, much more plausible if you use the simple… ‘The blue world is the matrix too!’ solution.
4. The Matrix must have other places (matrices) for programs to go, otherwise there would not be rogue apps running around the Matrix now. Those other places could just be other worlds all within the larger Matrix… Also, the machines might need to “destroy Zion” every once in a while so they can go and completely change that part of the Matrix. Kinda like shutting down a continent in Everquest for repairs. (Note: I do not eq)
Scott: I agree with you as far as humans are bad batteries. The brothers are definately not chemists — that much is certain. Presumably these machines would have access to the entire world once the take it over, and they should also have access to all the information too. So, why wouldn’t they use any of the other, more efficient means of generating power? I think that part of the plot is just ridiculous actually… “We were the ones who scortched the sky” Like the sun is the only power source available…
I can clearly see nearly half a dozen plot holes in the original as well as this second movie, but I think that it isn’t much fun to be a spoilsport and point out the plot holes of a movie that almost everyone is enjoying for the most part.
I think that the second movie was a success in a way, because now everyone left the theater with something to think about. If Neo’s new ability had only one clear-cut implication then that would be very boring for the audience — which has a subset of incredibly intelligent and curious people for sure.
I do wish the brothers were a little less perverse, however. They did so well with leaving all of their perversions to our imaginations in the first movie, but wedging the Persephony kissing scene into the middle of an extremely uptempo segment of the film was twisted, and showed literary immaturity in my opinion. It was a weak way to give Persephone a motivation, and it threw jealousy into the movie which was a terrible fit thematically.
I think that the scene probably stoked a few of the audience members who relate to Neo… the shot of Trinity pointing her gun at the second woman was tight, and then there is probably a niche that liked the thought of kissing a gorgeous, underwear-free, cream latex-clad, Mediterranean chicka in front of your lover. But that is just sick! Right?
Left by David on May 20th, 2003
Does anyone else think the sex scene was pretty much completely unnecessary? The whole little storyline with neo and trinity trying to find some nookie time was stupid…5 minutes before that he woke up in bed with her on the ship. The rave, while stupid, seemed to make sense defining Zion culture as coming from a 16 female, 7 male ‘repopulate the earth’ hedonistic society. The sex scene just seemed stuck in there for the hell of it.
I also don’t think Trinity is hot.
Left by Scott on May 20th, 2003
I think that Carrie Ann Moss is hot, but not as Trinity. And the fact that you see more Keanu ass than should be allowed by law didn’t help. The rave scene itself was cool, though, and the song (Fluke - Zion) is excellent.
Left by John on May 20th, 2003
It must be nice to have a community set up to find meaning and value in anything you put in the movie.
Left by Scott on May 20th, 2003
Makes you wonder how much they just made up to screw with people.
I’m positive some authors and script-writers do that, if for no other reason than to screw with people. That’d be so much fun. Can you imagine them sitting on the web, reading sites like ours debating all this and just laughing their butts off about how they really didn’t plan much at all, but just sort shot as they went and let people find their own meaning? Ok, ok, I know it’s not the case. But it’s be fun.
Left by Jordan on May 20th, 2003
I reckon that the brothers W have had a lot of fun with us - They’re picking on people like me who just can’t leave good enough alone, who can’t just watch the fight scenes and be done with it, who have to deconstruct, theorise and terrorise the plot. Surely, a lot of this movie is noise which has been introduced solely (?) to distract us from the meta-narrative which they’ll reveal in 3, but which they want to keep hidden for now.
There’s so much noise, of course, that you don’t know what’s significant (and certainly can’t know what’s real) - Take some of the allusions to myth and legend in character names:
Is ‘Persephone’ just a well-chosen pseudonym, or is she really the daughter of ‘mother’ (the as yet unseen (?) Demeter of this story. NB. Zeus (Architect) tells us that Oracle is not mum, but was he simply trying to throw Neo off the scent?);
If Persephone is the Greek Persephone, then that makes ‘Merovingian’ - inter alia - the Hades of this story…but that would be a real mix of myths, because the name is more closely associated with the Knights Templar and the idea that the Merovingian dynasty of France were the direct descendants of Jesus X and Mary Magdalene. Then again, there is such a mixing of lore from bible, middle ages France, classical Greece, hacker logic and computer gaming, that it’s not impossible that Merovingian is both son of god (perhaps The One 1.0 or 5.0?) and king of underworld. Is he there to search for some holy grail?
Is ‘Morpheus’ really a bad guy (unconsciously perhaps? after all - Neo has only just become conscious of who he really is) who manipulates our dreams so as to shape us (as per his character in greek legend)? When/if he becomes conscious of this will he to rebel and take a left door to somewhere unpredictable?
QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS, QUESTIONS
- Did anyone pick up on the name of the dweebie teenager that idolises Neo? (I didn’t) If it’s anything like Platus, then the whole Demeter thing falls into shape.
- What may be the significance of ‘Programs’ - if that’s what they are - which take pleasure in human flesh? (HYBRIDITY, of course, certainly was a problem/passion for the Greek gods)
- What was in the candy that the oracle gave Neo?
- Have we been fooled? Is Trinity really the centrepiece of this ever more complicated plot?
MY CRYSTAL BALL
- Because the brothers W are mind shagging us, I’m going to resist playing their game - No meta-theory from me! I have two points, though:
a) INFECTION leading to EVOLUTION appears to have been a key to the plot of 2. Neo infects Smith (the massive system failure, alluded to by the Architect); Smith infects Neo (now twice); Neo eats Candy from the evidently malevolent (but maybe not, I reckon she’s a good gal in disguise) Oracle; never do deep throat in a public toilet (infections there); Smith/Blane gives something from the Oracle to one of the captains. This nexus of infection/evolution is possibly the basis for transcending the blue/green worlds.
b) What is this evolution leading to? HYBRIDITY as FUTURE seems to be an important undercurrent - Both the Councillor and the Oracle seem to say as much. I suspect that the Oracle (and, subconsciously, Smith and Neo) is working towards some hybrid resolution.
I can’t wait until November!
Left by Penitent on May 25th, 2003
People,
I strongly suggest that all of you go and watch the Animatrix. By watching it a lot of the plot suggestions in this page will simply be out of context. I specially emphasize taking notice on
-how the humans never accepted the machines
-how the machines nursed the injured because of their knowledge of our protein-based bodies
-HOW THE HUMANS WERE UNABLE TO KILL THE ROBOTS, EVEN WHEN THEY USED ALL KINDS OF MILITARY TECHNOLOGY AND THERE WERE MILLIONS OF HUMANS. This means that just a simple awakening of a lot of humans will not do it, they need some kind of superior power to defeat them in the real world(if there is such a thing), this power could be Neo.
-how they connected a robot to the matrix itself
I really would hate a matrix inside the matrix theory as that would mean that the human race has absolutely no hope at all and the robots will win in the most humiliating of victories. I would like it if I was robot but god damn I just happen to have a “protein-based” body. The matrix inside the matrix theory is simply the darkest of nightmares and would simply just get rid of the emotion I have when I see the movie- that of knowing we humans do not abide to a world made of rules and that a software would never ever be creative and self-innovative as the human brain.
My theory is that somehow they are going to be able to turn the robots against themselves, after all, WE MADE THEM and we have the power to alter their software. Neo might be the brain behind all this. This is the ONLY way the humans can win, physically the humans can just not kill them, no matter how many nukes they throw on them. The only freaking question that remains is
How the hell did he stopped those god damn sentinels at then end???????????????????????????
The Architect
Left by 011100101010 on May 27th, 2003
BTW, the Animatrix is at http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/index_anime.html
Of course it still doesn’t preclude the Matrix within the Matrix idea, which while cool (and nightmarish) probably isn’t likely — Neo is played up far too much as the savior to just smash that to bits in the third movie. But we’ll see.
Left by John on May 27th, 2003
Okay this is a long shot - I’ve read all the other comments and am not sure I am well versed enough to post this but here goes…
What is the deal with Councillor Hamann? He is focussed upon a lot in the movie, but for no apparent ‘major’ reason… but my theory is that he is The One 5.0, the previous to Neo. Just a hunch but
a) he seems old enough
b) involved/integral to the storyline to a high degree without any real reason (yet)
c) to be really focused on ‘the machines’ (visit to the machine room), and how Zionians are and will always be reliant on them to exist (ie he knows there is no escaping the future for Neo)
d) he hints to Neo about what the future holds, saying something to the effect of ‘I believe you have a purpose, I just hope you figure out what you have to do in time’
e) he can’t sleep at nights (like Neo) and tells Neo this is good…. because that way he is human
f) conveniently appears outside Neo + Trinity’s place at the right time, when there would be at least 500 (guess?) possible levels in what we saw of Zion… pretty co-incidental if you ask me.
Someone earlier suggested that all The Ones were formed in Neo’s image - on the screens in the room, but I think they simply displaying suggested or possible reactions that Neo might have to the Architect… I mean the machines should be able to create that level of animation on screen to freak Neo out shouldn’t they?
Maybe I’m wrong but who really knows?
Also my Questions if anyone can answer are:
- Were the W Brothers in Reloaded as they were reportedly in TM as the Window washers?
- When Neo walks in to the room after he takes his first on screen ‘flight’ I think he says ‘Where are you?’ Assuming he is talking about the phoneline, but what is the significance of that?
- When the ships are navigated in to Zion and we see the people in the ‘White Control Room’, are they all connected to a system somehow via their neck plugs? Sure looks like Zion were using those to me… just wondering cause it seemed cool to me. Also what are the neck plugs called?
- Why did the ‘assassin’ guy with the knife cut his hand before going to try and kill Neo? Even I could tell it was a sharp knife, without the need to cut myself!
- Who the hell is the young guy who Neo saved? Did I miss that bit?
- Has anyone seen any flaws in Reloaded yet? Like the ‘extra hand’ in the first movie (watch the scene where Neo gets the phone delivered at work… watch behind his left shoulder on the desk. There is someone’s hand, in his cubicle leaning on the desk - weird. I haven’t read anyone else talk of this before so maybe no one else has seen it yet? Maybe I’m just talking to the converted and already knowledgeable…)
Left by Pete on May 27th, 2003
i too hope that it aint a matrix within a matrix as that would totally take away the effect of everything. I don’t think it would be this. It would be an easy way out to end the story of the Matrix and plug all holes as everything was just a game, simulation, dream, whatever.
If that is the case, what makes you think that there was ever a world where the machines are at war with the humans. If the matrix and the ‘real world’ are all bullshit, then the ‘REAL’ world outside of that could be totally different. Anyone seen 13th Floor? It would be exactly like that, EXACTLY! The real ‘real’ world could be anything. it totally takes the effect away from everything.
Im sure things will be explained in the last part of the film, why he stopped the sentinals and the need for Zion, as things like that dont make sense, though i do understand what is basically going on.
Just quickly, i think that this time around things are different with this One. All previous ‘ONes, have chosen the other door which leads back to the source to start all over again as they were brought up/programmed perhaps, to cherish and care for mankind, therfore when the time came they would take the door the architect hopes they will.
Neo is different, he chooses to save Trinity, despite what is going to happen to everyone else, though, he has hope that he can stop it anyways.
Things are really fucked up for the machines because of Smith. I believe that he will cause the downfall of the machines. He is now like a virus within the matrix and I think that he might infect the whole system, taking over everything!
There does appear to be holes, though there is still a third, where most holes will be plugged. Remember, they cut it in the middle and it continues straight away in the next installment.
I didnt like the film the first time i saw it cause i left with the feeling that it was matrix within a matrix, but on second and third viewing, i realized that this is very unlikely to be the case.
Later
Left by Mike on May 27th, 2003
Agent Smith is the one that tried to kill Neo. He cuts his hand because he is intrigued by human pain. He also is the one that is in the coma next to Neo at the end. It’s pretty obvious that it’ll boil down to Smith v. Neo. You can tell from the trailer too. If anyone has the video game, it has tons of footage filmed about Niobe’s ship. I was impressed how well the video game is a part of the movie. Blows my mind how well they work together. After playing the game, I think Ghost is going to die for Trinity’s sake.
Matrix in a Matrix doesn’t wow me enough to believe that’s the real ending. I’d be kinda upset if that were the reality.
Left by Eric on May 27th, 2003
The question remains though…. What IS the Matrix?
Left by Joe on May 27th, 2003
I am probably the least qualified person to expound theories, so no meta thinking. but I have a few million questions to start with(most of which I guess have already been asked
Going with a-matrix-within-a-matrix concept for now:
Why is the one needed at all? If we were to believe the architect, all the anomalies (those who chose to reject the matrix) are still floating around in an extended area of the matrix, collecting in Zion (probably a place designed to collect them). When the sheer number of anomalies reaches critical mass, they start disrupting the program and need to be reset. Well, as Scott asked, why dont they just go ahead and reset them? Why not just reset each individual as they rebel? Why is the one needed to represent “the sum of the remainders of a perfect equation”? (what do those words mean, exactly?) Why does the architect need Neo to “bring back the code” from all the anomalies before he can reset Zion?
Is it because the problem is choice? That the program cannot function without choice? Does the one have to *choose* to reset Zion before the program can do it? In which case, where does the fact that neo choose Trinity over “resetting Zion” leave the architect?
Related question.
Why provide Neo with nightmares of Trinity dying? Was it to get him used to the fact that she would die, giving him time to come to terms with letting her go? That way he could more reliably be expected to pick the right door. If that was the case, it backfired didnt it? Afterall, the most predictable human response is denial…
Makes me think that the architect INTENDED neo to make exactly the choice he did- to choose to disobey logic and to prove to be an anomaly till the very end. Didnt he say something about proving that an anomaly was both the beginning and the end? I didnt quite catch that part of the dialogue. And Smith says that after he got some of Neos code that he feels “compelled to disobey”
Also makes me wonder what the choices were for the other 5 versions of the one.
Left by Rachel on May 27th, 2003
Btw, that animatrix link wasn’t quite the right one. The one with all downloads seems to be:
http://www.intothematrix.com/
Left by Jordan on May 27th, 2003
“Penitent” asks above what the candy is. I don’t have an answer, but I have a follow-up question or two.
I’m intrigued right now by the potential parallels between the Oracle and the Merovingian. Both seem to be “higher” programs in the Matrix, not humans. Both have knowledge and abilities that exceed the standard construct. Both make an explicit point about giving sweets to people, which in the Merovingian’s case bears a viral payload of–interesting–code.
What’s “baking my noodle” is what code the Oracle inserted into Neo, with her “have a coookie” in The Matrix, and “have some candy” Reloaded. I don’t know if her culinary gifts to Neo are giving him machine-related abilities (i.e. zapping the sentinels) or affecting his free will somehow, but one thing seems clear: this movie series will make me think twice before having dessert from now on.
Left by Norville on May 27th, 2003
I just wanted to point out that Kid, the nerdy guy who Neo said saved himself, is explained n “Kid’s Story” in the animatrix. I don’t want to ruin it for any of you who haven’t seen it yet, so my lips are sealed when it comes to the plot of his story.
Left by Halibut on May 27th, 2003
I think there are 2 ideas put forth by the matrix storyline.
1) The man-machine dependance is a reflection of the God-man relationship. This implies that the concept of God cannot exist(or is pointless) without man’s(or any other lesser concious being) existence.
2) The matrix itself, and the discussions on choice etc, draws a parallel between the matrix, and religion. I think the writer is putting forth that religions are merely rules of restraint, but are only illusory.
I found the Oracle’s speech on purpose and choice very interesting. I think that speech implies that the answer to the much debated concept of “choice” in christianity etc, is that we have already made our choices in life, and religion/matrix is the process and basis for us to understand and rationalise the choice we made.
The way I saw the characters, i’m guessing that all ‘programs’ like the agents, are supposed to symbolise angels,created for particular purposes. Smith is probably akin to the fallen angel, n other rogue programs are the angels that side with satan. Neo is ofcourse probably meant to represent christ, given that he proves to be THE ONE only after death. The hedonistic scence in zion,probably implies that when man is seperated from the matrix/religion, he will fall to sinful ways.
The final idea of ‘reloading’ the matrix, seems to suggest that the coming of christ or and any other person claiming to be god, simply serves to restart the process of religion, and the birth of a new faith/control mechanism; and also destroys/undermines other previous religions(Judaism,Islam,Catholic,Christianity…)
Left by Tim on May 27th, 2003
He has to still be within the matrix.
The other possibility is that we know that the “real world” is set up by the machines to control the small minority who cant accept the matrix proper. What if this is in fact a sub-simulation created by the machines specifically to deal with the problem of the percenatage that cant accept the matrix. The architect more or less said at the end that the various incarnations of the one were allowed to do what they would to bring them to the source, and the redesign of the matrix to a more acceptable form. This would explain how the machines knew when to “attack” Zion, i.e. when Neo starts to get close to the source - the machines know everything that is going on.
The architect and the Oracle are in fact programs that are responsible for the redesign and evolution of the matrix towards perfection. The Oracle is the vessel for the machines to watch what the freedom fighters are up to - this could easily be accomplished if they are still within the matrix, or a sub-simulation.
Also supporting this theory - Smith is a construct of the Matrix - if the blue world were in fact real there would be no way for him to show up there as he has no physical body.
Left by Phil on May 27th, 2003
Ancilliary question - WHERE is the matrix? At the end (happy, I presume), do we expect the humans to burst into an air conditioned clean-room full of humming supercomputers on which the matrix runs and blow it up?
I keep thinking of Morpheus’ ‘Desert of the Real’ speech to Neo in the first film and the kindergarten nonsense about the AI monster turning humans into Duracells. Hel-lo; anyone heard of the Law of Conservation of Energy? It’s hard to believe the sriptwriters made such a stupid error in basic physics. A human being is a net consumer of energy - we can’t generate it (if that were true I could give up eating!). If the machines are feeding us nutrients to sustain life and then draw ‘power’ from us, where’s the energy for the growth/manufacture of nutrients (straight from hydrocarbons perhaps) coming from and why can’t the AI monster have used this (oil, nuclear etc.) as an energy source?
No, I think Morpheus was just wrong or misinformed (as he certainly seems to be about the cyclic history of Zion). The key is EMP - the preferred weapon of the first humans to tackle the AI monster pre-matrix. The use of EMP was an attempt to deny the AI monster the use of silicon/electronic circuits. The energy thing is a red herring. I think the AI monster was obliged to change hardware environment. It had to find a sytem with all the attributes necessary to run its own programs (memory, processing, symbolization, input/output, etc.) but that system had to be immune to the EMP weapon. The matrix is in our brains! The humans in the pink gloop tanks? They’re not batteries, they’re RAM!
Neo’s newfound powers in the Real, stem, I think, from an ability to manipulate the universe at the level of INFORMATION. Disabling the squiddies was a result of the Real yielding to Neo as ultimate programmer. He is becoming God the Hacker.
Which brings me to my last point. Why did humans create the AI that turned hostile? Not to get a smarter fridge, surely? No, you create AI to overcome the limitations of human intelligence. What problems would you set it to solve? Faster than light travel, immortality? I suspect that the AI was created to accelerate human evolution by turning us into gods (through whatever sci-fi device, say, universe-as-code, you like). It raises the question of whether the matrix is hostile to humanity at all, or whether it isn’t just running exactly the program it was designed for - to teach humans how to transcend the contraints of the material environment.
If Neo’s ’struggle’ with the matrix gives humanity the gift of godhood (in the Real), we may have to concede that the matrix was a moral good after all.
Left by Mark on May 27th, 2003
I have only seen the movie once, and I will undoubtedly watch it a few more times on the big-screen like the first movie. Theories:
1. Their is a collective among the machines, or the agents would have no network. If their is a collective then the Architect must be the main AI, but there are obviously independent programs. The oracle is seemingly independent of this main collective, but also works for it in a way, as she stears the One 1-6 to his path.
2. If the oracle is malevolent, then she has completed her “program” and will not assist Neo further. If she is benevolent, then she will offer further guidance. If she is neutral, she will focus on self-preservation and probably do the former. She seems to be independent of the Architect, as she needs the Seraph as a body-guard-something may “delete” her, and she would not be reformed like the agents, by the main AI.
Q. I thought Mr.Hack-N-Stab was not the same guy that Agent Smith invaded.
Left by Shai Hulud on May 28th, 2003
Q: How can the oracle see the future? Since the matrix and zion interact, how can the Oracle know what will happen in the matrix unless she also knows what is happening in zion?
How does she KNOW that Trinity is going to die? Does she know? Lots of questions, what is the answer (if there is one, or even only one)?
If we find that the Oracle cannot predict the activities of those people in zion, then she would be unable to account for when and where the zionists enter the matrix. Thus how could she predict what would happen in the matrix? The people of zion could enter (without her knowing) and by doing so would change the future (in the matrix).
All it would take for her prophesy to be undone, would be for neo in the zion world to slip on a banana, or his ship might have crashed; preventing him fulfilling his role as the one.
So if there is “no escaping reason” (Agent Smith) then the oracle can only predict events where she can account for EVERYTHING at some PARTICULAR MOMENT IN TIME.
In other words if the oracle CAN predict the future, then she must know everything in the matrix and zion at a particular time.
That is, as long as humans have no real choice, that their actions are from that point decided. (excluding any other influences from worlds outside both the matrix and zion).
And so the motto of the film that the best that we can do is understand the reason (why) we made that choice. That apparently is the difference between a computer which follows its program, and real power or intelligence.
Finally: What would be the difference between the Matrix and the “real” world?
We know that you can die in both the real and matrix world.
Also in the films, whereas in the matrix the rules can be bent or broken, in zion the people cannot bend or break them.
BUT: NEO in the first film does not have any power until he realizes that the matrix is fake. Similarly as Neo says to the architect: “either nobody’s told me or nobody knows”. So it is possible that since nobody except neo (at the end) realizes that zion is also fake, then they remain bounded by rules and boundaries. Once neo also realizes that zion is fake he can then apparently bend and break the rules that exist in zion. So rules do not appear to be the answer we are looking for.
The answer perhaps is that there is no real truth except “causality” (Merovingian). We really cannot tell whether our world is the real one or not. And perhaps this is what the philosophy that the Wachowski brothers are trying to show us.
Any comments? Please be constructive, so if there’s a loophole (and I know there are a couple) please BOTH show it to me and offer a suggestion.
Dazzz
Left by Dazza 101 on May 28th, 2003
Answers to “Pete’s” Questions:
- Were the W Brothers in Reloaded as they were reportedly in TM as the Window washers?
I don’t know this one, but would not be surprised.
- When Neo walks in to the room after he takes his first on screen ɣ8364;˜flightɣ8364;™ I think he says ɣ8364;˜Where are you?ɣ8364;™ Assuming he is talking about the phoneline, but what is the significance of that?
He was in the Oracle’s old house. he was looking for her. She has obviously been gone for awhile.
- When the ships are navigated in to Zion and we see the people in the ɣ8364;˜White Control Roomɣ8364;™, are they all connected to a system somehow via their neck plugs? Sure looks like Zion were using those to meɣ8364;`just wondering cause it seemed cool to me. Also what are the neck plugs called?
I thought I saw this, too. It would be cool… I don’t know what the plugs are called. I would assume something like “Jacks.” You know, like jacking into the system…
- Why did the ɣ8364;˜assassinɣ8364;™ guy with the knife cut his hand before going to try and kill Neo? Even I could tell it was a sharp knife, without the need to cut myself!
Not sure if this was Smith or not. I have seen this before, usually this is done to give the blade a taste of blood. I think it is to incite a type of bloodlust.
- Who the hell is the young guy who Neo saved? Did I miss that bit?
Are you talking about the one who follows him around like a puppy? If you are, then that is the first time he has shown up in the movies. The W brothers don’t give us any other explanation at this point. If you are talking about where the spoon came from, that was from the first movie. He was the potential that tells Neo “There is no spoon.”
- Has anyone seen any flaws in Reloaded yet? Like the ɣ8364;˜extra handɣ8364;™ in the first movie (watch the scene where Neo gets the phone delivered at workɣ8364;`watch behind his left shoulder on the desk. There is someoneɣ8364;™s hand, in his cubicle leaning on the desk - weird. I havenɣ8364;™t read anyone else talk of this before so maybe no one else has seen it yet? Maybe Iɣ8364;™m just talking to the converted and already knowledgeableɣ8364;i
I am sure there are a lot of this out. Try http://www.moviemistakes.com
Left by Kevin on May 28th, 2003
>> Who the hell is the young guy who Neo saved? Did I miss that bit?
Reloaded and Revolutions (and I think Enter the Matrix - the video game) are all one movie. They all make up part three in the trilogy. The second part was The Animatrix. It is the missing link - including the story about the boy Neo saved.
Left by Adam on May 28th, 2003
Everybody forgets one of the most important scene (for me ) in the movie. in the first movie, one of the best advices to Neo to realize that the matriz is a fake universe is the “there is no spoon” dialog. the kid givesneo a spoon on the green world, and neo is capable of bending it. when the kid send neo a spoon on the BLUE WORLD, what he means is that theres no spoon on the blue world too. thats what re realizes in the last scene, theres no spoon, theres no blue world, it all another matrix. its a fractal within a fractal. then he collapses into a coma, probably awakening in the THIRD LEVEL of the matrix.
sorry bout my english, im from brazil!
Left by Luke on May 28th, 2003
OK, if the Oracle is a rouge subroutine, then the Oracle’s powers are most likely only based on what she has witnessed in the prior matrixes prior to reloads right? In other words, she is not a true prophet since she only knows what happened in past matrixes and then advise on future events based on the previous choices (cause and effects) made by Neo, Trin, Morpheus, etc. Thus her abilities (or purpose) is limited. She cannot make any choices which impact the future of the matrix - or she connects to the matrix in a way that would cause her to be an active routine and then possibly shut down. (That’s a reach there). That’s why in the last scene, Morpheus arguements about the prophecy being true are shut down by Neo — Neo has made a different choice from the previous Ones (saving trinity) thus creating a different set of circumstances than any the Oracle has seen before. So she now becomes a useless character if the choice to save Trinity truly was unique unless the matrix somehow reloads again and this process starts over.
I’ve got to watch the 2 scenes with the Oracle/Neo and Neo/Architect a few more times to understand the connection there. Only seen the movie once so forgive any ignorance I may have missed above.
Left by Jason on May 28th, 2003
Is Neo a machine?
Left by spencer on May 28th, 2003
>> Reloaded and Revolutions (and I think Enter the Matrix - the video game) are all one movie
so i should have kept my ticket?
Left by Scott on May 28th, 2003
Yup… basically the entire trilogy is one big, six hour movie chunked into parts so that the audience doesn’t get bored. Welcome to the world of $30 movies.
Left by John on May 28th, 2003
Agreed #18, the counsellor definitely has some kind of big significance, I thought he was very suspicious.
Also, didn’t the knifer look kind’ve like the traitorous guy who replugged into the Matrix in the first movie?
I really hope the W’s have thought it through.
Left by Abdo on May 28th, 2003
By the way, I’m not suggesting that Cypher and Bane are the same person. I just mean that because of the theme of choice and free will, I think there’s some kind of relationship between weak people and their possession by and fear of the machines, and pretty much every bad thing in the movies.
After all, if the matrix was created by humans in the first place, they’re clearly too weak to control it; it’s their fault.
Also, I don’t think it makes sense that the happenings in the matrix can be completely predetermined. This would mean the program would have to be able to replicate real world exactly; which would be impossible to program as a human, because we don’t understand how it all works.
It’s hard to make sense talking about these films.
Left by Abdo on May 28th, 2003
There is no martix in a matrix because why would all the people of Zion have those odd looking plugs all over there bodies! if there was a matrix in a matrix they wouldnt have any plugs!!!
stop trying critisizing the movie. just enjoy it!!!
Left by unknown on May 28th, 2003
I’ve only seen the movie once, so bear with me.
Everyone that I’ve read here seems convinced that Neo made the unexpected choice. My initial impression was that he did just what the Architect thought (knew) he would do. Remember: The choice had already been made, so nothing should come as a surprise.
His choices, as I remember them, were: To take the one door which would lead to the Matrix Mainframe, destroy the Matrix, thereby saving Zion and killing everyone else in the world still plugged in to the Matrix; or, to take the other door which would save Trinity, but lose his chance to destroy the Matrix and leaving Zion vulnerable to attack.
If Zion were destroyed, it would be reset or reseeded with the 14 women and 7 men (or whatever) and the “anomalies” would be reset to minimal, and easily dealt with for the next hundred years.
Zion had been wiped out 5 times before. They knew they were going to wipe it out again. They made sure that Neo fell in love with Trinity as a further incentive for him to make that choice.
What I don’t understand is — what do they need a “One” for? Ostensibly, he was to provide “hope” to the anomalies contained within the Zion sub-matrix (going with that theory for the moment). But yet, after being introduced to the characters in Zion, it seemed that there was a clear split. Maybe half of them believed in Morpheus and all his talk of Oracles and Prophecies and “Ones”, but it was clear that the other half thought of him as some kind of nut case.
Also, if the anomalies within Zion were (for the sake of the Architect) to be kept at a minimum, why allow the creation of a “One”? They mentioned specifically that they had freed more minds in the previous six months than they had in the previous six years. So the “One” only introduces further instability into the Matrix in that case.
It also got me thinking about the entire pretext of Morpheus’ own Oracle visit. He was told that he was going to find the One. (Apparently, the Oracle telling people what they need to hear in order to foster the creation of the One). But if the purpose of the One was to destroy the Matrix, then, as the Architect pointed out, where would that leave everyone still plugged in to the Matrix? I see that they are willing to sacrifice the occasional passer-by in the street, as they are all potential agents, but are they really willing to sacrifice ALL of humanity, except for the quarter million that exist in Zion? If not, then what was thier plan for doing away with the Matrix without killing everyone in the first place?
Evidence supporting the contention of a Matrix-within-a-Matrix: Agent Smith in Zion. Presumably, that was an area of the code he had never had access to before, but now he does, as a result of his interaction (infection? evolution?) with Neo. Being a Virtual Person, it is unclear how he could exist at all in Zion, unless it were just another computer construct.
Left by Hadley on May 28th, 2003
Matrix is what it was, real world is what it is. Neo gained powers from his “mixing” with Smith, just as smith gained from him.
In the end, Smith and Neo will merge to EVOLVE into the future of the world. Machine + Man = peace.
How complex does it have to be?
Left by joe Matrix on May 28th, 2003
As for the “issue” with Agent smith being in the “real world” - why is this a problem?
He “took over” a human, and was uploaded into the brain of the body? Why is that so hard to understand? Downloading, storing, and uploading consciousness is not a new idea. To me, this was one of the least perplexing aspects of the movie.
Left by joe matrix on May 28th, 2003
I watched Reloaded for the second time a couple days ago. I went in seeking answers and clarification and left with even more questions then when I started. Basically, I left with a better understanding of what I didn’t understand. Most of those questions center primarily on the whole “Zion=Real World” vs “Zion=Another Level of the Matrix” quandry. Here’s what my mind is stuck on…
The prophecy of The One was a construct of the matrix, another means of control. As Agent Smith said at the very beginning of the film, “It’s all happening exactly as planned…except for us.” From this I assume that a) Neo was always meant to meet the Architect in the White Room to make “the choice;” and b) Smith had knowledge of “The Prophecy” and was no longer operating in the confines of the matrix. With me so far?
So Neo has to make a choice — return to the source and save mankind or “F-it” and save Trinity. This was a designed choiced by the Architect and the matrix. In order to provide Neo with that choice, Trinity obviously had to be put in peril.
How was Trinity placed in peril? She went into the matrix to shut down the emergency power.
Why does she have to shut it down? Because the crew responsible for shutting down the power was killed.
How were they killed? Sentinels found their ship, deployed a long range bomb and destroyed the ship killing everyone on…
Hold on! That’s not exactly what happened though. If you remember, one of the crew members scurried over the rusty bridge, discovered that an attack was immanent, and tried racing back to warn the Operator. However, as he runs back across, the bridge gives way, killing both him and the Operator. After they die, the Sentinels launch the bomb and the ship is destroyed.
So my question is this: In the context of “The Prophecy” as designed by the matrix, was the entire sequence of events planned? Obviously, the matrix would have control of the Sentinels…but how would it know the exact location of the ship? And how would it know that the bridge would give out?
My initial thought was that this proved the Real World was simply another level of the matrix — how else would the series of events unfold so perfectly? I’ll come back to this, though…
For the time being, forget every issue I raised in the above. Accept the series of events as they happened — ship goes down, crew dies, Trinity has to go in to shut down power which she does in time…
However, this only happens because Agent Smith engaged Neo in the hallway, delaying him just long enough to allow Trinity to shut down the power. Had Smith not done so, Neo would have opened the door prematurely, the building goes BOOM, he dies and the prophecy terminates before completion (completion being Neo meeting with the Architect).
Again, the question that arises is what was designed as part of the prophecy? Was the Agent Smith confrontation programmed by the Architect/matrix? If not, how did it know that Agent Smith would engage Neo at that precise moment?
In addition to perhaps providing more proof that the matrix is mult-layered, this opens up another huge can o’ worms — are these supposed “Rogue Programs” really all that rogue? Is it designed chaos? This would apply to Bellucci, the French Guy and the Oracle. You’d think that the French Guy, especially, would exist outside of the control of the matrix….but what if he was intended? What if everything was intended, even Neo jumping into Smith’s body at the end of the first film?
This entire debate might boil down to simply figuring out if the Keymaker’s death was “meant to be” (as he said it was) or if it was completely random. If it was meant to be, that means Agent Smith going rogue was part of the prophecy’s design and the Architect’s masterplan.
However, I don’t think it was meant to be. The Keymaker was designed only to serve his purpose…he likely lacks the ability to see beyond that purpose. So if he’s shot and dying, he accepts it as “meant to be” when, in fact, it might not be.
So if I believe this, I also believe that Agent Smith is indeed a rogue program. He said as much during Burly Brawl — “You took away our purpose.” He’s struggling with the human emotions he inadvertantly “caught” from Neo (like a virus). In place of a programmed purpose, he’s latching onto the closest thing to it — revenge. It’s a love/hate thing…he hates that Neo did this to him, but he’s conversely facinated by it, explaining why he cuts his hand before attempting to stab Neo.
This also means that The French Dude and the Twins are also rogue programs. The Oracle said, “what do people with power want? More power.” I believe this is Frenchy’s motivation; afterall, what’s more powerful than stealing a program that’s vital to the prophecy? Before leaving Neo, he said something to the effect of “I’ve survived your predecessors and I’ll survive you too!” Maybe he’s attempted to sabotage the prophecy in each of the previous incarnations of Neo and failed. Maybe what he fears most is Neo choosing the door leading back to the source. Maybe Neo has NEVER chosen that door, always choosing to go back to save someone or something in the matrix?
See, even more questions…
Here’s my theory. The Prophecy of the One *is* a construct of the matrix, designed by the Architect to learn more about human nature in order to better control the human race (it’s the reason the monitors behind Neo in the white room stablize to show him in the present moment as he decides between the doors — the matrix can’t hypothesize what it doesn’t know. It has no idea what Neo will decide until he begins to decide it.). I guess you could say we’re seeing a contrived fate….fate as programmed by computers.
However, I also believe we’re seeing *real* fate….destiny unfolding simultaneously with the one designed by the matrix. It just so happens that both are playing off one another. The matrix needed Trinity to be in peril to provide Neo with the choice to complete/continue its prophecy. So did the real world.
Let me clarify: In the Matrix, Neo’s “purpose” is to provide the machines with knowledge of the human race…go back to the source…etc etc. In the real world, Neo’s ultimate purpose is to end the war between man and machine.
So when the Oracle says Neo has “the sight,” I think he actually has sight beyond that of the computers and the matrix — he has sight into his destiny in the real world. He dreamt about Trinity’s fall because it was meant to happen in that real world.
But how did the matrix see it as well? I don’t think it did…I think it stole the vision from Neo and integrated it into its prophecy. How? Persephone.
Here’s where I take a huge leap with my theory, but I’m going to guess that Persephone is the mother of the matrix. When she kissed Neo, she saw into his love for Trinity, saw his fear in losing her, saw the vision of her dying. The Architect said that “the mother” was an intuitive program designed to explore human emotion (right?). And Persephone seemed to want that emotion…wanted to explore it. So maybe?
As far as Neo’s power over the sentinels goes, I think I’m going with Option C, that he gained those powers from Smith, same as Smith got his from Neo.
And now, I’m spent. Sorry about the length!
Left by Oscar on May 28th, 2003
Dave:
>>…Neo has to die in the Green World to save the Blue World
This is my latest theory too. He’s the ultimate sacrifice. He’s Christ…
Just taking down those machines (all half dozen) is enough to make him pass out.
Imagine his taking on the architect/all machines. He’s bound to die so that Trinity/Zion/humans can live.
-Juls
Left by Juls on May 28th, 2003
the way Neo is able to effect the sentinels is with wireless technology…. sort of. with smith being in the blue world, Neo and the human that smith took over are able to communicate via ESP into the matrix. so this guy is acting as a sort of gateway for Neo.
Left by mh on May 28th, 2003
mh: But by the time Neo ‘”feels something different” Smith is already long been in a coma. Maybe it’s ESP that works while unconscious?
It’s tricky to place Smith and his motives within the movie. As one comment above pointed out, he definitely is one of the anomolies of this sixth One.
(And now for a brief interlude. Why Neo really ~is~ the sixth one, and the Architect wasn’t lying about that:
1) Merovingian (or however you spell that guy’s name) and his comment about predecessors.
2) The Architect was too well prepared for the meeting with Neo for it to be an ‘oh-crap-he-wasnt-supposed-to-get-this-far-lets-make-up-some-BS-to-fool-him’ kind of story. It would be a pretty lame lie if it wasn’t true.
3) Neo, who has been a skeptic the entire time is pretty easily convinced of the truth.
In disagreement, of course, it should be pointed out that all of the other ‘Ones’ looked identical to Neo, but we know Neo looks like Neo in the real world. How could the machines control his blue world appearance. Answer? He’s a clone. All of the Ones are merely clones or genetically engineered for that purpose. No wonder his path was controlled from the very beginning…
And back to the show)
The other anomoly being Trinity, as described by the Architect. And yet, I’m still a little confused about the architect’s situation. Can someone who’s seen the movie again comment on the exact details of that discussion? What exactly was the choice again? There was Saving Trinity, Saving Zion, and Saving Mankind, right? I forget the exact interplay of the choices. If it was Save Trinity vs. Zion and Mankind die, then does that mean the other Ones had to choose between: Nothing, and Saving Zion and Manking, or was the choice somehow different for them. I’m a bit fuzzy on that one.
How in the WORLD would the humans in zion not remember their entire population being reset every 100 years. They seem to think they’ve been around for more than that, don’t they? I’m a bit confused. Or does the One just lie to them and they believe him easily? Something about how they restarted Zion doesn’t seem like it would work.
Left by Jordan on May 28th, 2003
Wouldn’t an EMP take out the Squiddy bomb? Yes, understand the Squiddies waited outside of the range of the pulse, but the bomb would get taken out by the pulse… wouldn’t it?
Also cheers for the answers #24, #30 and #37. Nice points #43.
Welcome to $30 movies is right… cause none of us really know what is going to happen, until we see the next one. All the trailers give away was that some other Zionians survived (guy who is in the ‘gun-robot-suit’ is the captain who escorted Morpheus when the Neb. first landed in Zion) and that Smith and Neo face off. Other than that, all we can do is guess… Good reading!
Left by Pete on May 28th, 2003
My two cents worth…
> Obviously, the matrix would have control of the Sentinels…
Huh? The Matrix is a completely separate entity from the Sentinels. Sentinels are hunter/killers in the “real world.” The Matrix is a complex system (can you call it a program?) ONLY to keep humans in a comatose state. I do not think there is any real connection between the two–ie., they operate completely independently.
> 1. The “earlier versions” of the One looked exactly like Neo, meaning the computers programed his looks in each version of Neo
Huh again? Why do you think that the screen is showing previous Ones? I think that the screens are the computers “forecast” or prediction of Neos behavior (I think John in an above post agrees). I dont see any evidence that they portray the previous Ones at all in the movie.
My thoughts on the end was at first the matrix within the matrix idea. BUT, what if you take a wider view of the movie? One of the major themes in the movie(s) is belief. If you blindly believe in something, who is to say that miraculous things cannot be achieved? What if Neo is starting to understand that if you believe enough that you can do something, it can happen? If he thinks that they are dead meat when those Sentinels come to nab them, he becomes inspired, and truly believes he can save them–and presto! he shuts them down with a wave of his hand.
It seems a logical step to me. In the Matrix1, he discovers his speed and power (becomes stronger), then he begins to understand that the Matrix is not real, and that he cannot die from bullets in his “dreams” (he essentially cannot die). Then he can fly (more power). Then he saves Trinity (he is able to ressurect people from the dead). So now he has become a god in the Matrix–only his mind is stopping him (and probably anyone else) from being a god in the “Real world.”
> What may be the significance of ‘Programs’ - if that’s what they are - which take pleasure in human flesh
Now that is a darn good question. Especially when the oracle says there are programs running in the background that control the wind, trees, etc. Wouldnt an important program such as the key guy be an invisible program?!??! Why a human form??? It makes sense for agents to be human–they keep the peace in the Matrix in such a way to not disturb people living in the Matrix (so they dont think something is amiss and wake up) [so much for that in the chase/fight scenes of the Matrix1].
> When Neo walks in to the room after he takes his first on screen ‘flight’ I think he says ‘Where are you?’ Assuming he is talking about the phoneline, but what is the significance of that?
Im pretty sure that he walks into the apartment where the Oracle used to be, and asks “where are you?” (to the Oracle, who is obviously not there). I dont think there is any significance to this other than the fact that she has gone into hiding.
> If we were to believe the architect, all the anomalies (those who chose to reject the matrix) are still floating around in an extended area of the matrix,
Im gonna have to go back and watch the Matrix1 again, but I think people are mixing up who the people are that reject the Matrix. Obviously, they are not “floating around in an extended area of the Matrix” since they dont accept the Matrix!! I think the machines flush them if they dont accept the Matrix. Like Neo–he woke up (did not accept the Matrix anymore) and FLUSH. No skin off the machines noses.
Nevertheless, Im pretty certain that the anomalies are NOT just any person who rejects the Matrix–the anomalies are the Ones (if we chose to believe the Architect that there actually HAVE been several previous Ones, and Morpheus is indeed wrong–I cant swallow that one–I believe in Morpheus almost more than I do Neo).
I think the Matrix1 made me think much more than this one–probably mostly becuase it was more palatable. The seemingly unending diatribe about causality, choice, blah blah blah was too much! Leave something to our imagination! Those are great things to think about in reality, but how they relate to the movie is what I want to think about. How do these things play out in the movie and how will it determine the fate of the characters? We know that love plays a huge role in the movie. And actually, I guess the question of whether our fate is predetermined or not (and thus choice) is a good conversation–but has this movie given us any more evidence to choose one or the other? I think the questions of Matrix1 are still largely unanswered, and they are baking my noodle.
Left by Nate on May 28th, 2003
I’m down with Pete’s suggestion, as that is what I left the flick with. I believe that Councillor Hamann and the rest of the council are the small group from carried over from The One 5.0 (with Hamann being the old ‘one’). That would explain their rule over Zion and their strong belief in Neo’s ability to take down the Matrix. My theory is that they know what choice he holds and that he can save them all, something they did not do when Hamann had the chance.
Left by Joel on May 29th, 2003
I’ll be short and forgive me for my terrible english.
First of all, Neo does “not like the idea of not being in control of his life” (Matrix 1). The Arch should have known that, before making the ASSUMPTION that Neo will choose the other door. He seemed pretty certain about it (”but off course we know which door you’ll choose” -or something like that). Neo beat him at his own game since he didn’t choose what the Arch was trying to convince him or guide him through the whole course of the Matrix (the Prophecy and all). Neo put Hope above Humanity. Why not risk it and save them all once and for all instead of doing what the others did (knowing what the end result would be (done 5 times already)).
Anyway #32 #33 and #43 have very good points. It is nice what you suggest with Persephone #43, being the mother and all. However, I will stay with the idea that the Oracle is the mother since she appears to have more experience with human psychology. She manipulates Neo and Morpheus off course. She is the one who advised the Arch on the psycological part of the Matrix.
I am sorry I will say this but in the trailer of Matrix 3 you can see a scene where Seraph is being shot at by ?who? (assumption: Neo) and shoots back. Guessing: Neo will attempt to terminate the mother of the Matrix, the Oracle. He will kill Smith and finally shut the whole damn system down, hence the lights turning off in the trailer and the voice saying something about total darkness. The end result? I don’t know. You know why? Because it is what each one of you makes it. There will be no end. The W brothers will leave us wondering since they will not show us the REAL world (ZION is part of the Matrix with enhanced security features), the film will end with darkness.
These are my thoughts.
Sleep well until the RevoloutionSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
The Kernel
Left by The Kernel on May 29th, 2003
My thoughts….
Working on the basis that the real world is indeed the real world not a matrix within a matrix…
“Hope” is the keyword here…
Ok…..basically, humans need hope to survive…as they mention in the film somewhere…..apparently, without peoples “hope” the Matrix would collapse killing everyone !!! got it, good……
So the matrix needs to give people hope…..for it to work…it does this by allowing people the possibility of escaping it by believing in the one….which they do, (and create Zion in the real world)…..still with me ? o.k……the machines know about Zion and tolerate it (as it feeds peoples hope within the matrix and gives them control)….They create a prophecy in the form of the One (again to give people hope)…..The oracle gets this message of the one to Morphious who passes it on etc……..They then give someone (in this case Neo) extra powers so he can be the one to fulfil the prophecy….
but what the machines don’t want is for Neo & Zions people to actually free everyone and end the matrix…… just to believe they can….The Architect tells Neo that Zion will be destroyed and that he has to select a few people to start a new Zion and repeat the cycle (giving people hope again) (councillor possibly neo version 5??)…..this has been done five times already where ‘Neo’ or whoever at that time has accepted.….To complete the cycle he has to make the choice to agree to allow Zion to be destroyed to start again…..However, this time he is in Love…..and chooses to Save trinity instead….(which the Architect told him he couldn’t do)…..however, he did……and in doing and not choosing to do what the architect says he has broken the first part of the cycle…..(now he has to prevent the destruction of Zion in the real world)….
Left by Matt on May 29th, 2003
(not Matrix related, but…) the problem with UTF-8 encoded punctuation should now be fixed… so you crazy non-ASCII users should be able to cut and paste with not a problem.
Left by John on May 29th, 2003
just a note, the guy who was infected/posessed by smith had a body, to which smith’s consciousness was downloaded as smith had taken over the guy’s (Bane I think) consciousness.
I must also say that I think the movie was decent but could’ve been better, possibly cos the original was a new concept (which is what made it great) and the expectation was that the concept would be greatly expanded on (which it wasnt) instead of being glossed over.
In any case, cant wait for Nov 5
Cheers
Left by zol on May 29th, 2003
just in relation to #50, i have watched all trailers and it appears that Seraph is fighting with them. In one scene i have seen Seraph shooting alongside Morpheous and Trinity. Seraph is my favorite character as he is so cool. I don’t believe that he is evil. I remember the trailer now. It is the teaser trialer entitled JAPANESE TRAILER at the matrix site.
Trailers are very deceptive sometimes. If you look at the Matrix Reloaded final trailer you can see Neo fighting Seraph which you could assume that he is bad when he is not. I have seen the two trailers for Matrix revolutions plus the basic teaser trailers for reloaded which also have bits from revolutions and i dont believe that i have seen Neo with a gun. He does not need a gun. I dont think that he would shoot at Seraph. He has no need to.
The oracle may be a machine but she is a machine that values life and understands that humans and machines need one another to survive. Just like with humans, there are those humans which seek to destroy whilst others seek for peace. the machines are AI remember, they are intelligent and each AI thinks for themselves. Just like humans, there are good machines and there are bad machines.
#23, my favorite number, thanks for raising the issue of the food bit. I have heard people say what a waste of time scenes are though most of them DO seem to have a purpose. Like you said, that had a real purpose to get info out about how programs/information can be passed on through food/drinks. I watched that scene in the first one when she gives him the cookie. she is very sure of the effects that it will do to him. It must have been more than a cookie.
For those that have not seen the trailer for revolutions (not the one at the end of reloaded but another) than you can find it here:
http://media01.cgchannel.com/videobin/matrix_revolution/matrix-revolutions.mpg
It is a really cool trailer. Very well put together. Parts of it would reinforce those who relate it strongly to biblical scriptures as Morpheous states that “he fights for us”. So Neo may well die for mankind.
I saw or watched (i cant remember) Joel Silver talking about the Matrix and the climatic 17 minute action bit at the end of Revolutions and how it cost two-thirds of the budget! He says it is something that will astound all! Part of it was when they shut down George Street in Sydney for a few weekends to fly a helicopter in and out as well as other things ( i think as that would have cost shit loads) They booked entire blocks and no one was allowed in. Shops had to close and all. (im from sydney by the way).
thats all i have to say for now. I love this site as everyones comments are helping me to try to piece together information about the matrix. Never has a movie made me think so much and have people with such different interpretations of what the hell is going on in terms of the story.
Later
Left by mike on May 29th, 2003
right ive been to see reloaded twice and still confused. Not really fussed about wild personal theories just wanna understand the main points with special regards to the architect/neo conversation (he uses some bloody big words!). The architect said that there were 6 matrixes before? each one had a ‘one’ who was what? was neo designed like a programme? designed for what reason exactly? what influence had the oracle on the concept of the one? when zion was destroyed (6 times) was it physically with the sentinels? (ie 17 women 8 men etc hand picked then taken away by the machines whilst zion was destroyed as in the ‘real’ blue world. surely people would remember???) surely it would take longer to rebuild that huge place 6 times during the space of time stated when machines took over the world? what were the two men delivering when smith did that freakish thing and intercepted into the blue world?if there was the matrix within a matrix why????? why enable them to broadcast? ‘thus facilitating the function of the one’????????????????????? sorry i know im dumb but finding it hard to read into what the w. brothers are pointing at. any answers would be useful
Left by Gaz on May 29th, 2003
Here’s my pet theory:
The matrix is a lot older than anyone inside realizes. It was originally created by a group of humans on a dying earth that realized they could live on by uploading their intelligence into a large, self-sustaining computer network. Over time, the rest of humanity chose an artificial world over their existing one. The intelligence behind the matrix (the Architect) was responsible (among a few others) for designing the environment in which all the other uploaded intelligences lived.
The first attempt was too perfect. There was no scope for betterment, which is the single underlying driving force of a human intelligence. So the matrix was redesigned to provide a more challenging environment and the notions of good and evil, of despair and hope were introduced. The driving force for the Architect was to evolve towards perfection. To be the most supreme intelligence possible.
The previous ones, despite driving the matrix towards this evolution, did not provide the Architect with the answers he was looking for, so the matrix was recreated.
Zion exists within the larger matrix as a symbol of hope - as does the prophecy. Smith, I think, is novel to Matrix 6.0. He is the fallen angel (free agent) that was a program that initially followed the will of God (the Architect) robotically, but on interaction with Man realized he was better than they were and is on a mission to destroy.
If any of this is true, I’m not sure what the ending could be. There would be no path to leave the matrix, but it could be redesigned as some kind of heavenly place. The problem here is that heaven is too perfect, leaving human intelligence with desire for betterment no place to go.
Left by BxCellent on May 29th, 2003
can’t help like viewing the highway as one over te 5 rivers (Styx…) that devide hades from the world of the living. Therefore they have to cross it on they’re escape from the Merovinger…
Left by Berend on May 29th, 2003
Hey,
Doesn’t some scenes in the movie (Matrix Reloaded), remind you scenes of Star Wars and Star-Trek ???
I mean the W brothers lost their originallity of the first film.
Considering the holes….. I’d rather not talk about it, but I would like to comment out the Architects words which came after some long action scenes which left us with an exploded brain and we just couldn’t follow up
I don’t think that there is a matrix in the matrix this would be non-sense, from the first movie we clearly saw the process of the abortion of a failed human battery (NEO), wasn’t that lifelike enough ? I mean what the hell is going on after all, they got us all mixed up and with a big grin in our faces just to wait for the 3d sequel at mid of november DOH !!!!!!!
Keep it up guys and gals, we should not squeeze our minds for a movie, did the guys who wrote the script squeezed theirs ??? I doubt not for the Reloaded part.
Left by George Simos on May 29th, 2003
To the people who say the existence of plugs in bodies or the birth of neo means the matrix in a matrix theory is wrong…the whole idea of the multilayered matrix is to make the people who reject the first matrix THINK they’re in another matrix. That wouldn’t work if they just sat up in bed and were in zion.
Left by Scott on May 29th, 2003
How does someone’s matrix-self look like their ‘real’ world self? if you get scarred in the matrix, do you wake up scarred? if you get fat do the machines start tube feeding you more in the pod?
Left by Scott on May 29th, 2003
and wouldn’t the people who grew up in pods have some seriously stunted and deformed growth? and has anyone answered the ‘how does reproduction work’ question? if you have a kid in the matrix, is it a random new baby they just popped into a pod, or do they actually find the dude and chick’s pods and do some kind of artificial insemination, or are the kids just routines? wouldn’t that breed people out of their matrix existence? how does the ‘bleeding in real life’ thing work? if involuntary actions were always mimiced by the body, wouldn’t that have some embarassing side effects? why do people in the matrix disappear if they’re zapped out by phone, but ‘die’ if they die in real life? wouldn’t the connection just be terminated either way? do the bodies eventually time out? how do they get into the matrix? how could humans possibly interpret a data stream hacked from something as complex as a matrix and follow what’s happening inside through text output on screens?
maybe it’s all a big truman show hoax for neo. “never go on the highway!”
Left by Scott on May 29th, 2003
Couple of other things;
1. Having just finished the game, I found out some stuff about the nature of The One. Basically it seems anyone can be The One, depending on the choices they make. For example, playing as Ghost you have the exact same meeting with the Oracle’s guard person (the tea room fight) and you fight Smith in the corridors. When you meet him he says “Ah, not who I was expecting, but no matter.” nb. Ghost looks nothing like Neo, I don’t get why everyone thinks they all look like Neo anyway.
2. I reckon there’s some implications in Link wearing his wife’s jewellery. It hints that there is some element of Luck involved in the Matrix, I haven’t quite figured that out though.
Left by Abdo on May 29th, 2003
Check out the link in the sidebar above for some fun secrets hidden in the official matrix website. For all of you who want that Trinity Pinup photo. No, I’m no kidding.
Left by Jordan on May 29th, 2003
I just read this WHOLE THING. My head hurts.
Left by Adam on May 29th, 2003
Maybe the matrix video game is just spyware that’s uploading film streams from the webcams of people playing it and they’ll splice that into part 3 to reveal that Neo is some dude in Tulsa playing on his PC.
Left by Scott on May 29th, 2003
Is blood loss in the matrix 1:1 with blood loss in the real world? If I become an alcoholic in the matrix such that my blood stops clotting, and then cut myself and wait ’till I bleed an excessive amount, wouldn’t my real world blood clot up?
Left by Scott on May 29th, 2003
Nice Scott (#60 and #61)–good points. Especially the birth thing. I thought of that… Kinda a problem! If youre (alone) in one of those pods, its kinda tough to become pregnant! Im guessing those are the kinds of things that cant be associated with reality and we have to go along with the fictional part of this story…
From #51: “which they do, (and create Zion in the real world)…..still with me ? o.k……the machines know about Zion and tolerate it (as it feeds peoples hope within the matrix and gives them control)….They create a prophecy in the form of the One (again to give people hope)…..”
People dont need external hope. As long as the accept the Matrix, they have no reason to think they are anywhere else. Thus, their hope–as you describe–is moot.
I think Zion must be real and the machines keep having to go and destroy it once they find out that it is being re-populated (”we have freed more minds in the last 6 months than we have in the last 6 years”).
Left by Nate on May 29th, 2003
Random Info! In the beginning of “The Matrix” when we see Neo asleep in front of his computer, he is listening to “Dissolved Girl” by Massive Attack (it’s not included on the soundtrack CD). The lyrics to the song are (from http://www.leoslyrics.com):
Massive Attack - Dissolved Girl
From the album “Mezzanine”
Shame, such a shame
I think I kind of lost myself again
Day, yesterday
Really should be leaving but I stay
Say, say my name
I need a little love to ease the pain
I need a little love to ease the pain
It’s easy to remember when it came
‘Cause it feels like I’ve been
I’ve been here before
You are not my savior
But I still don’t go
Feels like something
That I’ve done before
I could fake it
But I still want more
Fade, made the fade
Passion’s overrated anyway
Say, say my name
I need a little love to ease the pain
I need a little love to ease the pain
It’s easy to remember when it came
‘Cause it feels like I’ve been
I’ve been here before
You are not my savior
But I still don’t go, oh
I feel live something
That I’ve done before
I could fake it
But I still want more, oh.
Left by Chase Steele on May 29th, 2003
So is the Matrix trilogy gonna wind up being a 3 movie long, bill murray-free version of groundhog day?
(yeah, i’ve been bored today. can you tell?)
Left by Scott on May 29th, 2003
I think the orginal matrix is an application. And what we all thought was the real world is the operating system. How about that logic? The rogue programs that are deleted are “sitting in the wastbasket” on the operating system. What do you guys think about that?
Left by Paul on May 30th, 2003
I’m the guy who wrote the long-a$$ #43…
After watching the first movie, I’m sticking to my original theory, only now I’m fine tuning it…
There are two prophecies at work in the movie. The first is the prophecy as programmed by the Architect, a means to better understand “the human condition” (why we choose what we choose, act how we act, etc) and adjust the matrix accordingly. The second is occurring in the actual real world (which means no “matrix within a matrix”) — Neo’s destiny to end the war between man and machine.
The events of the two prophecies intertwine to the point that they’re almost identical. In addition to those I detailed in #43, there was also proof of this is the first movie, specifically in the scene where Cypher nearly kills Neo. He’s about to pull the plug on “The One” when, by some miracle, Tank rises and kills him. These were events that the matrix would be unable to design or program. (read #43 for clarification of what I’m getting at).
Basically, I think what the Architect says about destroying Zion — that they’ve done it five times and will do it a sxith — is bullshit. He’s bluffing the fact that he and machines have no idea where Zion is. It’s the reason Smith and Co. were so intent on obtaining the codes to Zion’s mainframe from Morpheus in the first film — they actually needed them.
Of course, they no longer do, not with the machines digging ever closer to the city. In addition to providing information about the human thought process, I think the prophecy is also designed to delay Neo thus keeping the anomaly in check and allowing enough time for the machines in the real world to find Zion.
Only this time, Neo will bust out of the loop. (Or will he?)
And I’m still rolling the dice with Persephone being the mother of the matrix. If memory serves me correctly, in greek myth, Persephone was kiddnapped from Zeus by Hades, and taken down to the underworld. The way I figure it, The French Dude stole Persephone as a means to have more power, just like he imprisoned the Keymaker.
Oh, and for whoever said that the sentinels and the matrix were two completely seperate things, watch the first movie again. When the other agents inform Smith that the “trace was completed” and they had the location of Morpheus’ ship, he orders them to “deploy the sentinels.” It sounds to me like the matrix is in fact in control of sentinels…or at least there’s a common “control” over both.
Left by Oscar on May 30th, 2003
I know I’m coming in a bit late here, but has anyone else brought up the possibility that Trinity is about to become some sort of SuperBitch because she died (and was brought back) in the Matrix - like Neo, in the first movie? Seems like it would be fitting, especially considering that “Now we’re even” line she throws at him.
Also: has anyone else notice that there’s exactly seven men represented (16 women, 7 men to rebuild Zion) at the end of the movie after Neo walks through the door that’s supposed to denote another choice? Could just be a coincidence, but I don’t know if the W brothers believe in coincidence.
And finally: Agent Smith in human form (Bane, is it?) cutting himself before he bon voyages Neo & Co. - could that possibly be some weird attempt at mixing their codes together even further or something along those lines? Seems to me (and I’ve seen it twice now) they made a big deal of the blood, and there’s camera work that shows blood on Neo.
I’m still waiting for a big “Fuck you!” from the W brothers, anyway. You know, “This movie IS the Matrix… shut the hell up and go play some frisbee golf, you analytical freaks.”
Left by Shannon on May 30th, 2003
Mark, (http://wantingseed.com/weblog/2003/05/20/the_matrix_reloaded_discussion_ridiculously_spoilerific.php#c000182)
Your comment about the humans being RAM are very satisfying. I don’t think that RAM is exactly the right term, but I really liked the thought-line of using humans as a storage device/shield from other humans’ EMP weaponary.
I have watched the Animatrix episodes “The Second Renaissance” Parts 1 and 2, and I don’t really understand why the humans would lose so badly to the machines. I mean, it seems obvious, but at the same time, we’ve got ingenuity and other cool human traits, y’know? We should have one that one, guys! C’mon!
OK, comments on the last two posts above mine…
Sorry Paul, I think that your analogy is a bit weak. I know that people like these things to be short and elegant, but yours has too many holes and such.
Oscar, I agree with so much of what you say that I am happy to read what I feel like is my opinion written by someone else. I do disagree with the Persephone thing though. She seems to be pretty married to the guy. I suppose she is kinda stuck in a castle in the middle of nowhere, but I think she could escape if she wanted too. Plus, she seems like she loves the Frenchie, but she is just pissed that he is cheating and being a general prick all the time.
I also disagree with the common control assumption. The sentinels don’t need to be controlled by one higher intelligence. They can be like police officers dispatched at the request of officers in a different deptartment or jurisdiciton.
I really think that the Architect guy (he really needs a better AND shorter name than that) was bullshitting, which isn’t to say that everything he was spouting off was false. The best BS is a tangy mixture of truth and lie, because seriously — everyone needs a little sugar… to swallow little shit. Didn’t Merovingian show us this?
OK, it’s bedtime, so I am just going to leave and add this quote for all to consider. Then I will come back this weekend and comment again.
Agent Smith: We’re not here because we’re free, we’re here because we’re not free. There is no escaping this system.
Left by David on May 30th, 2003
Hey guys, I am really thankful for your analysis since I left the movie confused. Here’s a script of the Architect - Neo dialogue that I found in another forum, I hope it’ll help coming closer to the truth:
repost of the script without flaws
Architect: hello Neo.
Neo: Who are you?
Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix I’ve been waiting for you.
You have many questions, and though the process has altered your consciousness you remain irrevocably human ergo some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.
Neo: Why am I here?
Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden asciduously avoided it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably….here
Neo: You haven’t answered my question.
Architect: Quite right. Interesting…that was quicker than the others.
(TV Neos: Others [how many others?] what others? answer my question!)
Architect: The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the 6th version.
(Tv Neos: 5 ones before me? 4…3..2.. what are you talking about? There are only 2 possible explanations, either no one told me….)
Neo: …or no one knows.
Architect: Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly is systemic–creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.
(Tv Neos: You can’t contol me! I’m gonna smash the wall I’ll fuckin kill you! etc..)
Neo: Choice. The problem is choice.
Cut to Trinity vs Agent.
Architect: The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect. It was a work of art…flawless, sublime. And triumphed equally only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus. I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another–An intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its Mother.
Neo: The Oracle.
Architect: Please (sarcastic). As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice…even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
Neo: This is about Zion.
Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed–its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.
Neo: Bullshit
(TV Neos: Bullshit! Bullshit! Bullshit!)
Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses, but rest assured…this will be the 6th time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
Cut to Trinity vs Agent
Architect: The function of the One is now to return to the Source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you cary, reinserting the prime program. After which, you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals–16 females, 7 male–to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.
Neo: You won’t let it happen. You can’t. You need human beings to survive.
Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility of the death of every human being on this world. It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication–a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific–vis a vis..love.
Neo: Trinity.
Architect: Appropos, she entered the matrix to save your life, at the cost of her own.
Neo: No…
Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the Source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the matrix, to her and to the end of your Species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don’t we? Already, I can see the chain-reaction–the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason–an emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth…she is going to die, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.
Architect: Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.
Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don’t meet again.
Architect: We won’t.
Neo exits out of the left door.
Left by Bonzo on May 30th, 2003
“There are levels of existence we are prepared to accept.”
I don’t get this. Firstly, he says “we”. Who’s we? It seems he’s referring to machines generally, indicating that he himself is a machine. So that would mean the Matrix was created by a machine. If there is no human presence controlling the Matrix, then it wouldn’t make sense for them to accept lower levels of existence. Like Morpheus says, machines are mathematical, they either function, or they do not.
Left by Abdo on May 30th, 2003
The Architect says: “As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice…”
Well. He just gave Neo a choice, didn’t he?
Left by Shannon on May 30th, 2003
Some comments based on Info from the Animatrix and “Enter the Matrix”, the video game.
*there has been a war between mankind and machines, and they’ve won because of greater industrial capacity (quite obvious, when you think about it :